Talk:Ethshar of the Spices
=New Ethshar= Where's the mention of "New Ethshar" from? I don't remember that, and if I said it anywhere other than a published story, I hereby declare it non-canon. The old name, mentioned several places, was "Azrad's Ethshar." Also, the overlord doesn't rule one-third of the land; all the land outside the cities is officially ruled jointly by all three overlords, with no internal borders. In practice people tend to look to the nearest of the three overlords, but at least in theory, anyone displeased with one overlord's actions could appeal to the other two. The "Holy Navies" part of the overlord's title isn't totally meaningless; the overlord of Ethshar of the Spices is responsible for whatever law enforcement might be needed at sea, including defense against piracy and the collection of tariffs. The other two overlords are responsible for defending the land borders, and Azrad (of whatever number) isn't. LWE 17:25, July 31, 2010 (UTC) * "Not with me; I didn't expect to need it. I grew up in this city, back when it was called New Ethshar; I hadn't realized how much it had grown and changed." Iridith in The Misenchanted Sword p341. She says this at the time that it's name is still Azrad's Ethshar but the name Ethshar of the Spices is taking hold, p342 Valder notes he's never heard a hint of the term "New Ethshar." Later she talks about serving under two Admirals who presumably predate Azrad the Great (Admiral Sidor and Admiral Dathet) over the space of her century of service as a combat wizard, so I assume "Azrad's Ethshar" is the old name while "New Ethshar" predated Azrad and is thus the "even older" name. I'll make "Azrad's Ethshar" more prominent though because it's certainly more commonly used by the ancients. * Speaking of terms only the ancients use, I hadn't realized til fairly recently that Iridith and Karanassa are roughly the same age and noticeably older than both Aldagon and the Wizards' Guild, and those to pillars are also roughly the same age. * After double checking, I think that the division was a misunderstanding based on the old General system, and Valder being sure that Gor wouldn't come after him because of such boarders. I'll clean it up I am a little confused about the "Holy Navies" still being their responsibility... it seems like the various Azrads have essentially let that go, from what I've gathered there isn't a navy and piracy is noticeable and dealt with by mercenary ship wizards. I guess it had become a responsibility without expectation by the time the pirate towns started doing heavy traffic? DarkerDreams 20:49, July 31, 2010 (UTC) I'd totally forgotten that bit about New Ethshar; interesting, and now that I have a date for it I understand exactly how it came about. Thanks. The division of powers among the three overlords was established around 5005 -- I never set an exact date, but shortly after the war -- so that would explain the discrepancy. Those ages are only very approximately similar, but yes, they're from those two periods of the Great War. As for the "holy navies" thing, it's what you might call an unfunded mandate. According to the terms of the original agreement that Gor, Azrad, and Anaran set up to create the Hegemony, the overlord of Ethshar of the Spices is in charge of all maritime issues, the overlord of Ethshar of the Rocks is responsible for defending the borders west of the Great River, and the overlord of Ethshar of the Sands is responsible for defending the borders east of the Great River. They're supposed to maintain the appropriate navy and armies. But they never actually did maintain them, which is why the Pirate Towns were never suppressed. The navy is supposed to maintain a hundred ships; it has three, one of them being a purely ceremonial vessel that's more or less the overlord's personal yacht, and they don't see much action. The armies are supposed to be 10,000 men apiece, but they were actually subsumed into the city guards a long time ago and no longer have any independent existence at all. However, Ethshar of the Spices does still own and operate a shipyard -- it's a source of income for the overlord's government, building and selling ships. Ethshar of the Rocks also has a shipyard, but it's contracted out, not run by the city. I know all this stuff and it all makes sense to me, and fits together with the history, but most of it doesn't get into the stories. I dunno if it matters. LWE 16:38, August 1, 2010 (UTC) Well, "all this stuff" is a big part of why I started this wiki. I dig as much of this stuff out of existing material (stories and FAQ's and comments) as I can, and every time you make one of these comments about "yeah, this that and something else I figured out ages ago but doesn't really fit into stories without big narrative breaking exposition" I take a little bit of time and try to digest it into the wiki. I like looking behind the curtain after stories are over and seeing what's going on. By the way, the fact there actually is something behind the curtain is part of what makes Ethshar notable among fantasy worlds; the combination of detail, complexity, and humanness. Even world-power characters like Fendel and Iridith have trivial aspects to their lives and aren't sitting around waiting for the world-shattering events that happen like clockwork every other Thursday, because the history of Ethshar is more than counting back through world-ending catastrophes. As a fan it's pretty fun to have that faith confirmed and see what actually is filling up the world. One of the hardest parts about the time I spend filling out wiki-pages is not bugging you with 10,000,000 questions about random trivia (What started the Great War? Did wizards create dragons intentionally? What did lead to the creation of the Wizards' Guild? Did the Northern Empire get obliterated by the Demons? Were all the Demons of the Nethervoid'' '''summoned? How does Sorcery work? Shatra? Elves? Y'know the stuff that leaves the feeling like a kid asking "why is the sky blue?"). As it is, the ones that really bug me get thrown on talk pages. Maybe it doesn't matter in a general sense, it's certainly separate from enjoyment of the stories which stand alone without every little detail. But, knowing the background sometimes makes the moments of triumph much more fulfilling (and failure more frustrating). DarkerDreams 19:42, August 1, 2010 (UTC)